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	<title>Comments on: Don&#8217;t Go There Coach</title>
	<atom:link href="http://sgfsoccer.com/2007/10/29/dont-go-there-coach/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://sgfsoccer.com/2007/10/29/dont-go-there-coach/</link>
	<description>Southwest Missouri's Soccer Resource</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 03:10:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Kelly Ross</title>
		<link>http://sgfsoccer.com/2007/10/29/dont-go-there-coach/#comment-103873</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelly Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:31:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sgfsoccer.com/2007/10/29/dont-go-there-coach/#comment-103873</guid>
		<description>When all those, who have a vested interest in the continued growth and development of the game, have developed real solutions to the "problems" raised in the various articles and comments, please contact me directly so that the solutions can be immediately implemented for the betterment of our programs here at Lake Country Soccer.  I truly do look forward to any reasonable and realistic suggestions the soccer knowledgeable have to offer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When all those, who have a vested interest in the continued growth and development of the game, have developed real solutions to the &#8220;problems&#8221; raised in the various articles and comments, please contact me directly so that the solutions can be immediately implemented for the betterment of our programs here at Lake Country Soccer.  I truly do look forward to any reasonable and realistic suggestions the soccer knowledgeable have to offer.</p>
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		<title>By: Dee</title>
		<link>http://sgfsoccer.com/2007/10/29/dont-go-there-coach/#comment-103831</link>
		<dc:creator>Dee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:12:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sgfsoccer.com/2007/10/29/dont-go-there-coach/#comment-103831</guid>
		<description>Having a teenage son that ref's I understand the concern. My son had to be escorted from a tournament after ejecting parents from the field. Granted it was Sandy thqt was his protector but the fact that there was even the need to "protect" him I find troubling. I must admit I am a yeller.  I do find it to be a right, to disagree with a call, but I don't honestly ever expect the official to change it.  I don't mind the yelling as long as it doesn't involve any kind of physical threat or retaliation. I find that to be totally unacceptable.  I have heard people call for" take him out" or other such actions. Come on it is a game, is it really worth injuring someone over?   I have been to games where no one cheered or yelled and I must admit it  was kinda boring. Yell all you want just don't make it personal and don't be too critical. After all they are really still just kids! And the Ref's are doing all of us a big favor by putting up with us. The bottom line is no referee, no soccer, so show them the respect they deserve.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having a teenage son that ref&#8217;s I understand the concern. My son had to be escorted from a tournament after ejecting parents from the field. Granted it was Sandy thqt was his protector but the fact that there was even the need to &#8220;protect&#8221; him I find troubling. I must admit I am a yeller.  I do find it to be a right, to disagree with a call, but I don&#8217;t honestly ever expect the official to change it.  I don&#8217;t mind the yelling as long as it doesn&#8217;t involve any kind of physical threat or retaliation. I find that to be totally unacceptable.  I have heard people call for&#8221; take him out&#8221; or other such actions. Come on it is a game, is it really worth injuring someone over?   I have been to games where no one cheered or yelled and I must admit it  was kinda boring. Yell all you want just don&#8217;t make it personal and don&#8217;t be too critical. After all they are really still just kids! And the Ref&#8217;s are doing all of us a big favor by putting up with us. The bottom line is no referee, no soccer, so show them the respect they deserve.</p>
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		<title>By: Ole</title>
		<link>http://sgfsoccer.com/2007/10/29/dont-go-there-coach/#comment-103756</link>
		<dc:creator>Ole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 03:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sgfsoccer.com/2007/10/29/dont-go-there-coach/#comment-103756</guid>
		<description>Don't yell unless it's positive.  

Dang.  Leave it to Josh to cut to the chase.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t yell unless it&#8217;s positive.  </p>
<p>Dang.  Leave it to Josh to cut to the chase.</p>
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		<title>By: josh keisker</title>
		<link>http://sgfsoccer.com/2007/10/29/dont-go-there-coach/#comment-103755</link>
		<dc:creator>josh keisker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 03:56:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sgfsoccer.com/2007/10/29/dont-go-there-coach/#comment-103755</guid>
		<description>To all who like to whine and complain about the refs, become one! Learn the game in and out. Play, ref, coach and then you might get an idea about what soccer really is. If your a fan(parent) that goes out and watches games and think you are knowledgable please don't yell at the refs, your kids, or anyone else unless its positive.  You only ruin the game because you don't understand it! 
Thanks ole, great topic!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To all who like to whine and complain about the refs, become one! Learn the game in and out. Play, ref, coach and then you might get an idea about what soccer really is. If your a fan(parent) that goes out and watches games and think you are knowledgable please don&#8217;t yell at the refs, your kids, or anyone else unless its positive.  You only ruin the game because you don&#8217;t understand it!<br />
Thanks ole, great topic!</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://sgfsoccer.com/2007/10/29/dont-go-there-coach/#comment-103743</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 23:04:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sgfsoccer.com/2007/10/29/dont-go-there-coach/#comment-103743</guid>
		<description>I find it interesting that the topic of the article Steve wrote has to do with Coaches and parents behaving themselves in a respectable manner. 

I have refereed at many tournaments and youth events. I am amazed to find the worse of yelling from coaches and parents coming from the younger age group games. Is it really necessary to scream your lungs and chastise your U12 kids for not kicking it hard enough or not scoring. I dont have kids so this is truly a question I have for parents and coaches out there. If it is necessary then I will start preparing myself now. Along the same topic. The referees for these younger games are usually the newer and younger referees. It is a good place for them to cut their teeth on games and get the much needed experience. I know we all want the best referees on games but we dont get to practice our positions. The only way we get better is by doing more and more games. It is there that we can apply the knowledge that we learn in our classes and inservices. That being said I do not understand the insanity that some parents and coaches show when they scream at the young referee. Does it make you feel better about yourself when you do that? Do you walk away thinking "man I really told him?" I know when I walk away from games where a parent is screaming that much I just think about how much of a foul they made themselves look. 

As far as Referees needed for High School. The fact is this; we need more of them. The ones who worked my games when I played are still working games and they are in their 50's. The pool of referees is getting older and we need younger ones to fill in. As stated before it is shockingly easy to become a High School. The more referees we get the more we can put on the field. Most games need 3 referees on them. the 2 man system is not adequate. The 2 referees and 2 ARs is just ridiculous. But many referees drop out because of the politics of high school; Coaches rate the referees, and get to pick the referees for disticts, the referees at the Championships are part of the Good Ole Boy System. There is no assessment and no system set up for advancement. So there are lots of problems with High School officials. But the bottom line is we need more of them. So go take the test and I will see you out on the fields in the fall. I look forward to seeing some new faces.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it interesting that the topic of the article Steve wrote has to do with Coaches and parents behaving themselves in a respectable manner. </p>
<p>I have refereed at many tournaments and youth events. I am amazed to find the worse of yelling from coaches and parents coming from the younger age group games. Is it really necessary to scream your lungs and chastise your U12 kids for not kicking it hard enough or not scoring. I dont have kids so this is truly a question I have for parents and coaches out there. If it is necessary then I will start preparing myself now. Along the same topic. The referees for these younger games are usually the newer and younger referees. It is a good place for them to cut their teeth on games and get the much needed experience. I know we all want the best referees on games but we dont get to practice our positions. The only way we get better is by doing more and more games. It is there that we can apply the knowledge that we learn in our classes and inservices. That being said I do not understand the insanity that some parents and coaches show when they scream at the young referee. Does it make you feel better about yourself when you do that? Do you walk away thinking &#8220;man I really told him?&#8221; I know when I walk away from games where a parent is screaming that much I just think about how much of a foul they made themselves look. </p>
<p>As far as Referees needed for High School. The fact is this; we need more of them. The ones who worked my games when I played are still working games and they are in their 50&#8217;s. The pool of referees is getting older and we need younger ones to fill in. As stated before it is shockingly easy to become a High School. The more referees we get the more we can put on the field. Most games need 3 referees on them. the 2 man system is not adequate. The 2 referees and 2 ARs is just ridiculous. But many referees drop out because of the politics of high school; Coaches rate the referees, and get to pick the referees for disticts, the referees at the Championships are part of the Good Ole Boy System. There is no assessment and no system set up for advancement. So there are lots of problems with High School officials. But the bottom line is we need more of them. So go take the test and I will see you out on the fields in the fall. I look forward to seeing some new faces.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete Beckett</title>
		<link>http://sgfsoccer.com/2007/10/29/dont-go-there-coach/#comment-103735</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete Beckett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 20:14:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sgfsoccer.com/2007/10/29/dont-go-there-coach/#comment-103735</guid>
		<description>What I would add is that the best way to rectify the referee shortage is to step up, put on the yellow striped shirt and call a game. I did just that this year. It is not as easy as it appears from the sidelines, but it can be quite fun and a good way to give back to the game.
     There will be in every game calls that any ref would like to have back and others that they wish they had called in the first place. But every referee I know goes out on the field to do the best they can to make it good game for the players. I hope all parents, coaches and players understand and appreciate this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I would add is that the best way to rectify the referee shortage is to step up, put on the yellow striped shirt and call a game. I did just that this year. It is not as easy as it appears from the sidelines, but it can be quite fun and a good way to give back to the game.<br />
     There will be in every game calls that any ref would like to have back and others that they wish they had called in the first place. But every referee I know goes out on the field to do the best they can to make it good game for the players. I hope all parents, coaches and players understand and appreciate this.</p>
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		<title>By: Mac</title>
		<link>http://sgfsoccer.com/2007/10/29/dont-go-there-coach/#comment-103734</link>
		<dc:creator>Mac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 19:54:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sgfsoccer.com/2007/10/29/dont-go-there-coach/#comment-103734</guid>
		<description>Inconsistancy breeds discontent.  Soccer allows the referee to make broad interpretations of the rules.  What passes for acceptable to one referee is a yellow card offense to another.  Then, throw in deciding if the fouled team has an advantage, whether an offside player influenced a play,  and  the "understanding" that only very aggreivous fouls in the box will be called, and you get unhappy players, coaches, and fans.  

If high school soccer is to improve, then clear rules must be set.  (Is soccer a non-contact sport or another form of rugby?  Is running through and taking the legs out from someone jumping to head the ball acceptable, a free kick, or a yellow card?)  The rules for high school do not have to be the same as the World Cup's.  Next, more referrees are need per game to enforce the rules.  Two referees are not enough.  Two referees and two line-men should be the minimum.  This would keep a referee in the play and limit some of the action between players away from the ball.  This still isn't close to the number of referees used in most high school football games (six according to Wikipedia) which has the same number of players on the pitch.

I understand that it is difficult to be a referee, but the rules of high school soccer make it much worse that other sports.  Until the referees, coaches, and school administrators come to an agreement on the rules and how they will be called consistently game to game throughout the state, nothing will change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Inconsistancy breeds discontent.  Soccer allows the referee to make broad interpretations of the rules.  What passes for acceptable to one referee is a yellow card offense to another.  Then, throw in deciding if the fouled team has an advantage, whether an offside player influenced a play,  and  the &#8220;understanding&#8221; that only very aggreivous fouls in the box will be called, and you get unhappy players, coaches, and fans.  </p>
<p>If high school soccer is to improve, then clear rules must be set.  (Is soccer a non-contact sport or another form of rugby?  Is running through and taking the legs out from someone jumping to head the ball acceptable, a free kick, or a yellow card?)  The rules for high school do not have to be the same as the World Cup&#8217;s.  Next, more referrees are need per game to enforce the rules.  Two referees are not enough.  Two referees and two line-men should be the minimum.  This would keep a referee in the play and limit some of the action between players away from the ball.  This still isn&#8217;t close to the number of referees used in most high school football games (six according to Wikipedia) which has the same number of players on the pitch.</p>
<p>I understand that it is difficult to be a referee, but the rules of high school soccer make it much worse that other sports.  Until the referees, coaches, and school administrators come to an agreement on the rules and how they will be called consistently game to game throughout the state, nothing will change.</p>
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		<title>By: Wendy</title>
		<link>http://sgfsoccer.com/2007/10/29/dont-go-there-coach/#comment-103705</link>
		<dc:creator>Wendy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 14:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sgfsoccer.com/2007/10/29/dont-go-there-coach/#comment-103705</guid>
		<description>A MYSA sanctioned games requires USSF refs (16 hour training class required to officiate the youth games in this state). Wouldn't it be prudent to have high school refs take the same class. I find it odd that you can mail order a request for high school license as a ref, pass an open book test with no real history of playing or training and officiate at a higher level of competition. Safety should be first and foremost with secondary emphasis on the knowledge of the rules. All officials make bad calls. Not all officials are inconsisitent and apathetic towards safety and rules just simply untrained. 

It is hard to respect an official when a clear persistent misunderstanding of rules is apparent. High school refs have no real level of assessment and accountability. I believe referees will improve for high school if and when they assess each other and have coaches assess them using a similar format of the USSF assessment forms. Would you want a mail order teacher? doctor? Many refs are stepping up to leadership without a depth of soccer knowledege. At least make them train via Missouri Referee Development Program, Grade 8 or similar program. 

Maybe go to the local associations throughout Missouri and recruit grade 8 refs that have 100 or so games under their belt. Recruiting USSF refs for high school and waiving the fee would also be helpful as they have previously paid in time and money to gain a license that requires more training than MSHSAA. The National Federation of State High School Associations even suggests the practice to gain quality refs. That was a point of emphasis in the NFSHSA 2007-08 soccer rule book. 

We can collectively improve the quality of refs by holding them accountable to a standard we all can live with as players, parents and coaches. Continued poor accountablity and no changes in recruiting and training  is only going to produce the same very negative decline in the state of of high school soccer officiating. As of now an official has no impetus to improve the knowledge of the game which creates further frustration of players, coaches and parents resulting in harsh criticism and poor sportsmanship. I am guilty. The solutions is for all involved to lobby for recruiting, training, and assessing refs instead of blaming MSHSAA and doing nothing but complaining.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A MYSA sanctioned games requires USSF refs (16 hour training class required to officiate the youth games in this state). Wouldn&#8217;t it be prudent to have high school refs take the same class. I find it odd that you can mail order a request for high school license as a ref, pass an open book test with no real history of playing or training and officiate at a higher level of competition. Safety should be first and foremost with secondary emphasis on the knowledge of the rules. All officials make bad calls. Not all officials are inconsisitent and apathetic towards safety and rules just simply untrained. </p>
<p>It is hard to respect an official when a clear persistent misunderstanding of rules is apparent. High school refs have no real level of assessment and accountability. I believe referees will improve for high school if and when they assess each other and have coaches assess them using a similar format of the USSF assessment forms. Would you want a mail order teacher? doctor? Many refs are stepping up to leadership without a depth of soccer knowledege. At least make them train via Missouri Referee Development Program, Grade 8 or similar program. </p>
<p>Maybe go to the local associations throughout Missouri and recruit grade 8 refs that have 100 or so games under their belt. Recruiting USSF refs for high school and waiving the fee would also be helpful as they have previously paid in time and money to gain a license that requires more training than MSHSAA. The National Federation of State High School Associations even suggests the practice to gain quality refs. That was a point of emphasis in the NFSHSA 2007-08 soccer rule book. </p>
<p>We can collectively improve the quality of refs by holding them accountable to a standard we all can live with as players, parents and coaches. Continued poor accountablity and no changes in recruiting and training  is only going to produce the same very negative decline in the state of of high school soccer officiating. As of now an official has no impetus to improve the knowledge of the game which creates further frustration of players, coaches and parents resulting in harsh criticism and poor sportsmanship. I am guilty. The solutions is for all involved to lobby for recruiting, training, and assessing refs instead of blaming MSHSAA and doing nothing but complaining.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Jordan</title>
		<link>http://sgfsoccer.com/2007/10/29/dont-go-there-coach/#comment-103407</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Jordan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 21:02:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sgfsoccer.com/2007/10/29/dont-go-there-coach/#comment-103407</guid>
		<description>So none of this?

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/10/29/BA05T2GAG.DTL</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So none of this?</p>
<p><a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/10/29/BA05T2GAG.DTL" rel="nofollow">http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/10/29/BA05T2GAG.DTL</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ole</title>
		<link>http://sgfsoccer.com/2007/10/29/dont-go-there-coach/#comment-103373</link>
		<dc:creator>Ole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 18:55:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sgfsoccer.com/2007/10/29/dont-go-there-coach/#comment-103373</guid>
		<description>Rich, your points regarding the need to compete are on target.  It wouldn't be the same game otherwise.  

My hope is that by pointing out these recent events and stories, which I have witnessed in this area in the past three years of providing coverage, that folks will think twice about some of the negative comments that are made.  As you also advocate.  Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rich, your points regarding the need to compete are on target.  It wouldn&#8217;t be the same game otherwise.  </p>
<p>My hope is that by pointing out these recent events and stories, which I have witnessed in this area in the past three years of providing coverage, that folks will think twice about some of the negative comments that are made.  As you also advocate.  Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Allen</title>
		<link>http://sgfsoccer.com/2007/10/29/dont-go-there-coach/#comment-103364</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 18:34:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sgfsoccer.com/2007/10/29/dont-go-there-coach/#comment-103364</guid>
		<description>Right on, Steve.  I couldn't agree more.  Unfortunately, I'm afraid this has more to do with a "win at all cost" philosophy that is all too prevalent in our sports culture.  I also think that it is amplified in soccer because so many people know just a little about the sport.  A little knowledge is in-deed a dangerous thing.  Since so many people are totally ignorant about soccer, those with a little knowledge feel empowered.  Ignorance is quickly realized in more popular sports, such as football and basketball.  At a soccer game, however, I have frequently noticed the more vocal fans know a little something about the game.  The parents around them know nothing about the game and think that the vocal, obnoxious parent must know what they are talking about.  It really detracts from the beautiful game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right on, Steve.  I couldn&#8217;t agree more.  Unfortunately, I&#8217;m afraid this has more to do with a &#8220;win at all cost&#8221; philosophy that is all too prevalent in our sports culture.  I also think that it is amplified in soccer because so many people know just a little about the sport.  A little knowledge is in-deed a dangerous thing.  Since so many people are totally ignorant about soccer, those with a little knowledge feel empowered.  Ignorance is quickly realized in more popular sports, such as football and basketball.  At a soccer game, however, I have frequently noticed the more vocal fans know a little something about the game.  The parents around them know nothing about the game and think that the vocal, obnoxious parent must know what they are talking about.  It really detracts from the beautiful game.</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Garrad</title>
		<link>http://sgfsoccer.com/2007/10/29/dont-go-there-coach/#comment-103360</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Garrad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 18:25:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sgfsoccer.com/2007/10/29/dont-go-there-coach/#comment-103360</guid>
		<description>While I agree with all your points Steve, attending these events for a number of years now and witnessing behavior of all sorts I think I have to say something.  The point about competition is to bring out competitiveness.  I attended a game last week and there were some "unfortunate" calls.  I admit I said something along the lines of "you've got be joking ref", but I left it there.  I don't think spectators need to be silent on the side line, as has been advocated elsewhere and which I have experienced, it was awful!! As in all things in life it is probably wise to consider ones actions before acting on them, knowing where to draw the line.  Referees should expect to receive some questioning of their efforts, I expect most of us experience some of this every day in our competitive world.  I also expect us to show enough restraint to make that "questioning" civilized.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I agree with all your points Steve, attending these events for a number of years now and witnessing behavior of all sorts I think I have to say something.  The point about competition is to bring out competitiveness.  I attended a game last week and there were some &#8220;unfortunate&#8221; calls.  I admit I said something along the lines of &#8220;you&#8217;ve got be joking ref&#8221;, but I left it there.  I don&#8217;t think spectators need to be silent on the side line, as has been advocated elsewhere and which I have experienced, it was awful!! As in all things in life it is probably wise to consider ones actions before acting on them, knowing where to draw the line.  Referees should expect to receive some questioning of their efforts, I expect most of us experience some of this every day in our competitive world.  I also expect us to show enough restraint to make that &#8220;questioning&#8221; civilized.</p>
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